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Welcome![edit]

A plate of chocolate chip cookies.
Welcome!

Hello, Histocultura, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Below are some pages you might find helpful. For a user-friendly interactive help forum, see the Wikipedia Teahouse.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our help pages, and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to ask me on my talk page or place {{Help me}} on this page and someone will drop by to help. Again, welcome! Rahio1234 12:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Javanists[edit]

It is interesting that you make the claim that adherents of kejawen and kebatinan are known as 'javanists'. Do you have a good source for that? In western academic tradition the term was regularly someone who knows something, or who has knowledge of the language and culture of Java, who is most cases not a Javanese person for a start. JarrahTree 09:11, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Citation source already provided, please read carefully. (Histocultura (talk) 09:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC))[reply]
Andrew wrote of the term he chose in his specific text to explain people/informants he was interacting with in Banyuwangi, it is not specifically understood as such in wider areas of the literature, about all traditional religion in Java. As it is obvious that english is not your original language, you must take care with utilising a single authors' usage to apply across the whole of javanese cultural world. There has been an extended literature involving the variations in language between the centre and the periphery Hatley, Ron; Monash University. Centre of Southeast Asian Studies; Australian Indonesian Association of Victoria (1984), Other Javas away from the Kraton, Monash University, ISBN 978-0-86746-334-7 - - it works both ways - JarrahTree 10:32, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As this is english wikipedia, utilising indonesian language texts is perhaps a problem - there is a rich and complex array of materials in english - Kuncaraningrat, Raden Mas; Southeast Asian Studies Program (Institute of Southeast Asian Studies) (1989), Javanese culture, Oxford University Press, ISBN 978-0-19-588907-9 and specifically about religion (even if it is not currently accepted)Geertz, Clifford; Geertz, Clifford. Modjokuto, religion in Java (1976), The religion of Java, University of Chicago Press, ISBN 978-0-226-28510-8{{citation}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) it does provide context.

JarrahTree 10:38, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. I did not comes up with the term, I utilize the term that already exist in several English-language books.
2. I did not cite informations from any Indonesian-language sources, I understood English, and there is a little documentation of Indonesian sources, because mainly written in Javanese instead. Yes, I added the Indonesian-language book in Bibliography recently, but it doesn't mean I cite that book into the article. I only add it there just for additional reading reference.
3. Javanism (and anything related to those specific topic) is not originally a belief/teaching of English people or even using English language in their own native manuscripts, but I tried my best to provide article materials in English based on respective citation sources. Yes, I admit sometimes I forgot to add the citation source, but let me do it little by little, cause this is my first time contributing in Wikipedia.
4. Please do your part if you feel like neccessary to add some important notes, but as someone who are familiar with the topic, I have tried my best to provide accurate informations, I even pick and choose related sources with "fairly good English" to be used, so it is not a random-sourcing just like what you thought.
5. Also, I already provide additional source for the "adherent of Javanism" context, because apparently the term might overlap to one another.
(Histocultura (talk) 11:04, 21 May 2024 (UTC))[reply]
wow more misunderstandings than can properly explained or gone through -
1. whether beatty (or others) use the term 'javanist' in their explanation of people who follow kejayan or kebatinan or any other more private versions of tassawuf - the point is that the term is also used for londo - by londo... heheh
2. wow - so misunderstood, very difficult to explain - I didnt complain about your adding the Indonesian text - I stated the issue in the face of the fact that geertz and kuncaraningrat and others have not been mentioned - maybe they are not fashionable to quote anymore...
3. ??? - orang jowo are the obvious source of the culture - I have every concern that many aspects of kejawen and kebatinan have nothing to do with english interpretations - romo zoetmulder from zaman dulu was a very good explainer of kakawin and very old javanese texts,

but australians like stuart robson and george quinn have provided useful understanding of javanese culture... JarrahTree 11:27, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. Javanism (and Javanist) is not exclusively refers to those who adhered to Sufism. That's only the Kebatinan Kejawen Javanists who probably took influence from Sufism. As what I stated before, one thing that you lack is the familiarity of the topic. You are clearly have zero understanding about Javanism and its detailed categories. You can't force your idea that Javanism only belongs and exclusive to Kebatinan subgroup adherents, because in reality, Javanism is a very wide or broad term, exhibiting the inclusivity of both denominations and its branches. Javanese has more than 100 Million population, did you really think they bear the same thoughts and belief (especially in religious contexts)? nope.
2. Your choices of citation sources and mine are not something that should be debated. You do you, and I do my part of contribution, that's it. Why would you force someone to cite the things that they didn't even read at first? if I got my Bible and use my Bible, would you love to be forced to cite Bible in your own religious contexts if you were a Hindu? try use that logic. And what even is "fashionable" has something to do with this?
3. Kebatinan is branch of Kejawen itself, trying to inforce "Kejawen and Kebatinan" is like something you wanna say about "Islam and Sunni". And who are you to judge which person is better to one another? why are you always getting personal? is this Wikipedia to provide informational article encyclopedic informations or personal branding forum?
4. Javanese people knows and understand better about their own Javanese culture, etc. Not those European people who lived on top of Aboriginal land.
(Histocultura (talk) 11:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC))[reply]
Please understand that discussion on wp:en requires a careful understanding of WP:AGF,

you should understand very carefully about WP:NPA and also understanding WP:CIVILITY, you are making assumptions about me that have killed the conversation. I was hoping to try to find some common ground, and you are not - best of luck editing, I think that's it now. Bye JarrahTree 11:48, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 2024[edit]

Unblock request[edit]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Histocultura (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

  • @Drmies: Hello, I was accused as the sockpuppet, but this is my only account. The accusation was emphasized on the same usage of the citation reference? is that even make sense? how come citing the same reference means I am the same person as the one that been blocked? and also, how come the geolocation could be used as the reason to accuse me, because the provider internet in Indonesia could appear in relatively close location in national's capital due to the similar usage of the sattelite. I need a further detailed review, do not blindly accuse someone without clear and blatant evidence. I request for my unblock. * @Drmies: Hi, why did you delete my ping to you? who am I supposed to talk to, when you're the one who decided to block me? I need your explanation and please review this block.

Decline reason:

Procedural decline only. This unblock request has been open for more than two weeks but has not proven sufficient for any reviewing administrator to take action, or you have not responded to questions raised during that time. You are welcome to request a new block review if you substantially reword your request. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that

  • the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Wikipedia, or
  • the block is no longer necessary because you
    1. understand what you have been blocked for,
    2. will not continue to cause damage or disruption, and
    3. will make useful contributions instead.

Please read the guide to appealing blocks for more information. Yamla (talk) 18:46, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

  • Unblock requests are looked at by a different administrator. If that admin needs to hear from me, they'll ping me. Obviously admins shouldn't review their own blocks. Drmies (talk) 15:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Drmies: But you are the one who blocked me, and I need an explanation and re-check over your decision. Because I have read the Terms and Conditions before I perform my contribution on Wikipedia, and as far as I understood, I did not violate any of them. (Histocultura (talk) 05:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC))[reply]
  • And it isn't just what you cited, it's how you cited it. Besides that, books by Brill are rare and do not sell well (believe me I know), and they are not typically found on just anybody's bookshelf. Plus you can't read them online. Drmies (talk) 16:56, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Drmies: What do you mean by "how I cited it", when all my citation using the same citation template / format provided by Wikipedia? are you trying to tell me that the editors can't use the same template anymore? Furthermore, I don't even quite remember about the Brill's books, which one you're referring to? because all my sources are online-based, I read them carefully one-by-one before I cited them to Wikipedia (because I won't provide misleading information). And isn't it too bias if you judge a book only by its sales? is there any rules in Wikipedia that we should not cite book that has low sales? and what it has something to do with "sockpuppet" that I've been accused for? (Histocultura (talk) 05:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC))[reply]
      • If you don't remember citing a Brill book, maybe go through your edits until you find it. And the seasoned administrator of good faith who might look at this request probably understands "how you cited it" when they look at the evidence presented at the SPI, and they can always email me with questions. Drmies (talk) 14:30, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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